BMW R1200RT/R1250RT forum

BMW R 1200RT => BMW R 1200RT tires/tyres, oils etc. => Topic started by: David. on 2020-10-17 22:56:55

Title: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: David. on 2020-10-17 22:56:55
With Dunlop Roadsmarts likely to be unavailable soon, I'll be looking for an alternative tyre in the future. Michelin PR2's are listed by BMW as one of six tyres for my 2012 Camhead. The rear PR2 should be a version code B which itself is now no longer produced. As a lightweight rider who usually rides solo without luggage, do I really need a beefed up rear tyre. By default, I've experienced using PR1's riding two up plus luggage without any problems. Likewise, the Dunlop Roadsmarts do not have a version code tyre for heavy weight bikes used two up with luggage. I like tyres, particularly the rear to have TWI's towards the centre of the tread pattern to monitor wear. This video clearly shows TWI's in good positions across the full width of both the F&R tyres, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTUefNG1Xoc I may contact Michelin for their advice. Meanwhile, has anyone here had experience of using PR2's on an RT. Any feedback & comments would be most welcome, thank you.

Pilot Road 2
(https://www.nationalbiketyres.co.uk/image/cache/data/img1/michelin-images/road2-600x800.jpg)
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: Graham88 on 2020-10-17 23:05:06
Dare I suggest the Roadtec 01's? I fitted them to me 2011 RT and they were excellent, so much so that I also put them on my cbr600 with the same result. I was going to wait for the stock tyres to wear out on my 1250 but after 1500 miles I'm considering changing now.
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: David. on 2020-10-17 23:28:38
Used Metzeler Z6's very successfully for many years until getting caught out with a rear going down to the cords without warning. Since then, have used the Dunlop Roadsmarts with a tread pattern & TWI's across the full width of the tyre. Unlike the Z6's which have a slick section in the centre of the rear, hence getting caught out.

I prefer tyres which are not heavily cut with grooves & sipes. My theory is that the more rubber in contact with the road the better. I predominantly ride in the dry and if wet, just adjust my riding style accordingly. All tyres work in the wet, some are just claimed to be better than others. Most new tyres are promoted for their wet grip, this isn't the major selling factor for me.

Roadtec Z6
(https://www.nationalbiketyres.co.uk/image/cache/data/img1/metzeler-images/z6-600x800.jpg)
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: David. on 2020-10-17 23:29:56
I was going to wait for the stock tyres to wear out on my 1250 but after 1500 miles I'm considering changing now.

What are the stock tyres, Michelin PR4's or Metzeler Z8's.

Pilot Road 4
(https://www.nationalbiketyres.co.uk/image/cache/data/img1/michelin-images/pilot-road4-600x800.jpg)

Roadtec Z8
(https://www.nationalbiketyres.co.uk/image/cache/data/img1/metzeler-images/z8-600x800.jpg)
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: Graham88 on 2020-10-17 23:36:07
PR4's, they work great in the dry but the Roadtecs are noticeably better in damp and wet conditions. Without checking I think they also have indicators close to the centre.
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: David. on 2020-10-17 23:41:55
Roadtecs are noticeably better in damp and wet conditions. Without checking I think they also have indicators close to the centre.

Roadtec 01
(https://www.nationalbiketyres.co.uk/image/cache/data/img1/metzeler-images/roadtec-01-600x800.jpg)

As posted above, wet grip is important but not the main priority for me.
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: hammo on 2020-10-18 08:18:57
I changed my Metzeler on my 2018 model at 9000 mile , now have Road Pilot 4,s hope i get 9000 out of this set , as too handling i have had no problem in the wet with the road pilots , that said i don,t try to imitate Valentino Rossi .
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: Our Gee on 2020-10-18 09:12:45
I ran two back to back sets of Pilot Road 2 on my Hexhead. Hated them. I only fitted the second pair as there was a deal on at the time. I did get over 7000 miles from the first pair but they where really well shot and howled terribly at any slight lean angle. I notice that they are available at around £163 (plus fitting) now so that may be attractive to some. The Roadsmart 1, now sadly becoming hard to source is IMHO  a superior tyre in all respects although longevity maybe not quite as good. If you are looking for a premium but now superseded tyre I see that the Continental Road Attack 2 is available for £149 plus fitting at National Bike Tyres. I ran two sets of the Conti's after my Pilot Road 2's and loved them and the main reason for this is the lovely comfy ride. Mileage is not at the top of my list of tyre requirements but a nice compliant ride is especially when you take into consideration our horrendously poor road surfaces here in the UK. In fact I might just return to the Conti's when my present Bridgestone's are ready for replacement. (With a manufacture date of 2017 this will be based on age rather than remaining tread).
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: David. on 2020-10-18 10:03:30
The ContiRoad Attack 2 tread pattern is rather unusual.

(https://www.nationalbiketyres.co.uk/image/cache/data/img1/continental-images/roadattack2-600x800.jpg)
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: David. on 2020-10-18 13:11:23
I've experienced using PR1's riding two up plus luggage without any problems.

(https://i.ibb.co/x5xx6NV/RT1.jpg)

Pilot Road 1
(https://fstg.motosport.com/motographics/images/products/Metric/07tires/Mich_PilotRd.jpg)
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: David. on 2020-10-21 09:58:23
I may contact Michelin for their advice.

Michelin will only recommend using the "GT" version of their current Pilot Road 4 or Road 5 tyres. Here are their replies to my emails posing the question in the OP.

"The recommended tyres for your machine are actually the GT version of the Pilot Road – these have been homologated for the German market specifically to meet the needs of a machine of this type."

"You are asking me to comment on a tyre that was launched in 2007 and how it will work on a 2012 bike. The bike wouldn’t have come with that tyre. That bike hasn’t been tested with that tyre. Whilst a service description is a legal requirement it doesn’t mean its suitable or recommended. I know people who run all sorts tyres on all kinds of machinery and swear by them but as the manufacturer we are only ever going to recommend what has been homologated for a specific machine. Can you fit Pilot Road 2 on a BMW R1200RT without issue? Quite probably. Am I going to recommend it to you? No."

Having used Pilot Road 1's without any problems, I might "quite probably" look at Pilot Road 2's. I am aware of a.n.other who has used the standard Pilot Road 4's, (not GT's) without any problems too.
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: Sullivj on 2020-10-21 17:45:13
Why not just do what most people do, and buy the 4 or 5 GTs?
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: David. on 2020-10-21 18:41:55
Tyres are a personal choice. I don't like the tread pattern on the Pilot Road 4's or Road 5's. They are too fussy and probably over engineered for my needs. I ride the RT between April & October and don't deliberately go out in the wet. My theory is that I'd rather have more rubber on the road than a tyre which is heavily cut with grooves & sipes. Perhaps Michelin have some deal going with BMW to use their tyres. Currently, the only other tyre which a new RT would have as factory fit is the Metzeler Z8, where a version code is specific to the bike.

I also like retro looking things, hence riding around on an eight year old RT. My future tyre choice is likely to be either the Pilot Road 2 or the Metzeler Z8 with the correct version codes specific to an RT.
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: Sullivj on 2020-10-22 09:25:10
Well there's a first.  I've never seen a tread pattern described as 'Fussy' before  :))


Sounds like you're getting close to a decision.
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: David. on 2020-10-22 10:07:09
I ran two back to back sets of Pilot Road 2 on my Hexhead. I only fitted the second pair as there was a deal on at the time.

Did you use version code "B" on the rear, as recommended by Michelin.
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: BoB21 on 2020-10-22 10:18:12
David im confsed with your theory/logic regarding more rubber less sipes. For starters we all get caught out in rain at some point or another. Yes you might wait for rain to pass but realistically waiting for road to dry?
You prefer more of  old compound of rubber and a tyre that has more than likely sat on shelf longer than a modern compound with sipes?
Each to own but dont follow logic.
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: David. on 2020-10-22 10:25:48
Michelin Pilot Road 4
(https://aecbmesvcm.cloudimg.io/cdno/n/webp.png-lossless/https://dcadprod.azureedge.net/b2c-experience-production/attachments/cjfv57q560xl90hqm774tfwpc-moto-tyres-pilot-road-4-gt-persp.one-third.png)

Metzeler Roadtec Z8
(https://i0.wp.com/justmotorcycletyres.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/metzeler-roadtec-z8-pair-e1460739754807.jpg?resize=300%2C300)

Currently, PR4's & Z8's are factory fit to RT's. IMO, the photos show how two different tread patterns can work in all conditions. Some tyre manufacturers use grooves & sipes to improve wet grip, while others use chemical compounds to produce the same or similar performance. The latter may possibly be thought of as a cut slick which works in the wet on a race track.

Yes, the PR2 may be older tyre technology but are still in production and will have a date of manufacture on the sidewall of the tyre. I've recently purchased Dunlop Roadsmart 1's which are less than a year old, whilst Dunlop are now on to Roadsmart 3's. Dunlop have continued to improve their tyres by using new chemical compounds/rubber technology without resorting to cutting more grooves & sipes.

Before replacing my last pair of RS1's, which were well down to the TWI's, I rode in some atrocious wet conditions without any problems. If necessary, adjusting my riding style/pace to suit.
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: hammo on 2020-10-22 11:25:01
Everyone has their opinion on tyres , and everyone has their own riding style , you can only go by other riders comments , i ride to the speed limit at all times , some riders like to imitate Valentino Rossi , hence more wear on the tyres , i changed my tyres from Metzeler to Michelin Road Pilot 4 GT and have found them to be excellent in dry and wet conditions .     
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: Our Gee on 2020-10-22 15:45:29
I recall that when the Pilot Road 4 first came out some folk complained that there was a noticeable increase in the amount of road debris (grit and small stones etc) being picked up by the tyre and deposited on the front of the engine and exhaust headers etc. which is not surprising when you look at the amount of grooves and sipes.
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: David. on 2020-10-22 20:17:44
Found this 2012 Michelin Motorcycle Tyre Fitment Guide, http://www.ride.lv/files/downloads/michelin-catalogue.pdf

Looking at the specs. (see page 11),  the Pilot Road 2 should not be a problem for a lightweight (10st/64kg) rider, without being loaded for touring or riding with a passenger (two-up). Most of my riding is now done solo without luggage. The load index & speed rating for the standard rear is (73 W),  this is exactly the same as the "B" version. Michelin say, "180/55 ZR 17 rear also available in a ‘B’ version, specifically designed for loaded sport touring or riding two-up". It does not list specific bikes such as the RT. The load index must include the bike and the payload, with the load distributed % wise over both F&R tyres.

Based on the above, when I'm next due a pair of tyres, if Dunlop Roadsmarts are not available, I may well give Michelin Pilot Road 2's a go, assuming they are still available themselves.
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: David. on 2020-10-23 09:47:03
Without tyre manufacturer weight guidelines for rider, passenger & luggage, tyre version codes are not a lot of use. I was out recently with a solo rider who at 20st is twice my weight. My Mrs & I are less than that which allows us some luggage capacity too. The Michelin tyre "B" version code guide is for loaded and/or two-up. Does this mean that both a 10st or a 20st solo rider can use the same non-version code rear tyre.

The same can be said of tyre pressures & suspension pre-load settings. At what point do you make changes for the payload on the bike.

The tyre manufactures probably "assume" that an RT is more than likely to be used two-up with or without luggage. Fitting "full fat" version code tyres e.g. GT's, covers all eventualities and the manufacturer's backside. If you only ride solo, like I do, why pay for something you don't need.
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: simbo on 2020-10-23 19:37:16

The tyre manufactures probably "assume" that an RT is more than likely to be used two-up with or without luggage. Fitting "full fat" version code tyres e.g. GT's, covers all eventualities and the manufacturer's backside. If you only ride solo, like I do, why pay for something you don't need.


I've used both versions of PR4's and couldn't tell any difference between them whatsoever. I've also had the PR4 'Trail' version and they're no better off road than the either of the road variants. I had PR2's on my GSX1250fa and they were good tyre's, my RT came with PR3's when I bought it and I felt they were a better tyre, especially in the rain. Then I went to PR4's (non gt) and couldn't tell much difference, Then the GT version, and again, no difference. I've got 5 Trails on my GS which I feel are a step up from the 4's in Dry weather grip, but not much difference in wet weather grip. At the end of the day, all these modern tyre's are better than 99.9% of the riders that use them. ( me inc)
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: beemerboy9 on 2020-10-24 11:14:09
The tyre manufactures probably "assume" that an RT is more than likely to be used two-up with or without luggage ......
....cruising at 120 mph on a German autobahn in 30 degree summer temperatures.


This is why the manufacturers have to recommend the "reinforced" tyres for the RT.  If one does not ride in these extreme high-load conditions, one might very well get away with a non-reinforced tyre. A quick look at the axle loading of the tyre should inform one's decision.


It may be that certain folks are uncertain about whether all rubber compounds are the same, leading to the conclusion that a ultra-modern tyre with more sipes has less grip than a 10-year old design with no sipes. The truth might be that a modern, high-silica, low-internal-friction tyre can have a softer, grippier, hard wearing rubber compound with more water-dispersing sipes and still provide a slighter improved level of grip compares to a more traditional tyre.


The most important tyre charcteristic to me is the handling at the limit. Does the tyre slide a wee bit or is there a sudden loss of grip when negotiating an unexpectedly poor surface.

In saying the above, I am not trying to dissuade anyone from their preferred choice. Each to their own.....
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: David. on 2020-10-24 11:45:42
A quick look at the axle loading of the tyre should inform one's decision.

The load & speed index for the F&R rear tyres recommended for an RT is (58 W) front & (73 W) rear.

This is the same for standard & version code (GT) tyres, where the max load is front 236 kg & rear 365 kg for both tyre types.
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: David. on 2020-10-24 13:43:50
Take these two examples, my RT is 263 kg + rider at 64 kg = 327 kg.

A friend has a Triumph Tiger 1050 at 198 kg, was out with a.n.other rider at 129 kg. The combined weight of bike + rider would be as above 327 kg.

Why does the RT need a version code tyre and the Triumph doesn't. Surely, it's the combined loading of bike + rider etc. on the tyres.
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: beemerboy9 on 2020-10-24 16:36:40
Take these two examples, my RT is 263 kg + rider at 64 kg = 327 kg.

A friend has a Triumph Tiger 1050 at 198 kg, was out with a.n.other rider at 129 kg. The combined weight of bike + rider would be as above 327 kg.

Why does the RT need a version code tyre and the Triumph doesn't. Surely, it's the combined loading of bike + rider etc. on the tyres.


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)


Taking the current RT, 279kg is optimistic as one was on the weighbridge at 300kg with all the gubbins such as ESA and radio. Then you add a top box at 10 kg.


Fill all the luggage and add a heavy rider and pillion and you might get close to the 600kg combined limit of both tyres. 


Add in a nice safety factor for extreme use conditions and one might easily need a reinforced or heavy duty tyre.


It is truly bewildering when one looks at the different-spec tyres out there - and I don't have all the answers.


Nor does it all stop at motorcycles. Audi supplies "AO"-spec  tyres and Mercedes have theirs as well........
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: David. on 2020-10-24 17:34:19
Dunlop make it even more confusing, their latest RT fitment is the "standard" Roadsmart III.

Recently, to complement the existing "SP" rear, Dunlop have introduced an "SP" version front for lighter machines,
https://news.goodyear.eu/dunlop-introduce-roadsmart-iii-sp-front-tyre/
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: David. on 2020-10-26 15:16:40
Had another email reply from Michelin Europe with the correct answer.

"As per our phone call, you should fit GT tyres, for an example the MICHELIN ROAD 5 GT.

But if you are not wanting to purchase these due to price reasons, you can fit the MICHELIN ROAD 2 without any issues."


The previous reply was from Michelin UK & Ireland, probably some jobsworth.
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: David. on 2020-11-27 14:16:16
I was sent an article from this month's Bike magazine, Buy old model tyres.

"The latest tyres are better than last year's models but in the real world most of us couldn't tell. In fact, you'd struggle to spot the model before that unless you rode them back to back with the latest tyre and concentrated really hard. That means you can save a fortune by buying superseded models. These are still brand new - we're not recommending buying used tyres, or out of date rubber -just not the latest spangly version. So, for example, instead of getting a Michelin Road 5 (about £150 for a 180-section rear),  you get the excellent Road 4 (£125) or jolly decent Road 3 (£110). The theory works for all the big brands. And you still get to enjoy great tyres, and feel smug about it".

Or, a decent Road 2 for £88, https://www.nationalbiketyres.co.uk/michelin/pilot-road-2?product_id=36913
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: Graham88 on 2020-11-27 15:47:19
Hmm, on the other hand if you are unfortunate enough to have a spill you would be asking whether that extra 0.5% would have helped in any way and was saving that £25 really worth it. If you're biking on a budget that tight, stay away from the BMW showroom. Me personally, as far as brakes, tyres, body armour and helmets go... I want the best, on the other hand I dont really care about a £1500 colour upgrade.
Title: Re: Michelin Pilot Road 2
Post by: BoB21 on 2020-11-27 16:25:34
last years model not road 2 . Just saying.