Author Topic: 4 wheel drivers when filtering.  (Read 1021 times)

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OnlineMikeS

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    Re: 4 wheel drivers when filtering.
    « Reply #15 on: 2019-05-05 13:44:40 »

    This is my take on filtering too - I try not to get annoyed with, or react to, thoughtless or awkward behaviour on the part of drivers, and try to acknowledge the ones who make things easier for me.
    Looking back over the years my experience has been that the majority of drivers move over to let you through once they realise you're there. Can only remember a few occasions when someone has appeared to deliberately obstruct me.
     I agree a quick thank you wave costs nothing and helps foster car drivers attitudes that we appreciate it and it's good thing to let us through.

    OfflineDavef1uk

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    Re: 4 wheel drivers when filtering.
    « Reply #16 on: 2019-06-09 09:50:55 »
    I was filtering through a 20 mile tail back last week up the M5 after a ride to and around south west Cornwall.


    I was thinking why filtering...it would be much easier to use the hard shoulder...I can’t see why they don’t let us use it.    I do understand why 4 wheels can’t, but we are talking about a motorbike, nimble and made for avoiding.  😊


    It seems safer, easier and if someone has broken down, we can just filter around like we do anyways... or even stop to offer help ( if it’s a busty lovely ) 😊


    I am not aware of any motorbike being charged or told not too.    Any thoughts???


    Cheers
    Motorbiking is a life, not a hobby.  Ride with Pride.  😜

    Offlinejackronner

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      Re: 4 wheel drivers when filtering.
      « Reply #17 on: 2019-06-09 11:48:56 »
      Dave1Uk, you echo my thoughts exactly as regards that tempting, empty shoulder lane.  There's hardly ever a situation where a bike can't get out of the shoulder lane at need.  Just keep an eye out for emergency lights behind to give you plenty of time to get over.  Much safer for all concerned, except for hard debris that tends to migrate into the lane.

      OfflineDavef1uk

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      Re: 4 wheel drivers when filtering.
      « Reply #18 on: 2019-06-09 12:07:43 »
      Dave1Uk, you echo my thoughts exactly as regards that tempting, empty shoulder lane.  There's hardly ever a situation where a bike can't get out of the shoulder lane at need.  Just keep an eye out for emergency lights behind to give you plenty of time to get over.  Much safer for all concerned, except for hard debris that tends to migrate into the lane.
      Totally agree Jack. 


      Just a no brainer to me.  Safer all around.   When I was in the States, albeit slower freeway speed, those hard shoulders just seem right to use. 
      Motorbiking is a life, not a hobby.  Ride with Pride.  😜

      OfflineMrCabbage

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        Re: 4 wheel drivers when filtering.
        « Reply #19 on: 2019-06-11 13:25:21 »
        Except that hard shoulders are fast disappearing in the UK!

        OnlineGraham88

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          Re: 4 wheel drivers when filtering.
          « Reply #20 on: 2019-06-11 14:57:59 »
          Unpopular comment I'm sure but car drivers are entitled to use the whole of the lane they're in or whichever part they like.. they are not obligated to move out of the way for anyone who isn't displaying blue lights. Its nice to come across folk who do move over but when a motorcyclist starts expecting or demanding it, the car driver is no longer the a** hole.

          Using the H/S to get through traffic would be a solution up to a point, until you end up with a convoy of bikes zooming down there and then you may as well open it up for all traffic.

          OfflineSleuth

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            Re: 4 wheel drivers when filtering.
            « Reply #21 on: 2019-06-11 16:56:35 »

            I also noted in France an odd behavior, 'til I realized what it was:  as a way of saying "Thanks" to a driver who pulls over to give you room, they'd extend their leg for a moment instead of a wave of appreciation.


            In Belgium, we also use the hand, leg or anything else to say thanks.  It depends on the circumstances.  Vehicle on my left hand side will get a thankful hand wave.  On the right if there is enough time & space, pull the clutch in and say thanks with the hand, or just use the leg.
            Best regards, Sleuth

            OnlineCasbar

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              Re: 4 wheel drivers when filtering.
              « Reply #22 on: 2019-06-11 17:30:36 »
              Unpopular comment I'm sure but car drivers are entitled to use the whole of the lane they're in or whichever part they like.. they are not obligated to move out of the way for anyone who isn't displaying blue lights. Its nice to come across folk who do move over but when a motorcyclist starts expecting or demanding it, the car driver is no longer the a** hole.

              Using the H/S to get through traffic would be a solution up to a point, until you end up with a convoy of bikes zooming down there and then you may as well open it up for all traffic.


              Filtering is a means to make safe progress in stationary or slow-moving traffic. The manoeuvre is perfectly legal. Highway Code Rule 211). Most motorists are very good and will move over for you, it's the ones that deliberately then move into your path to block that are the idiots and its dangerours. I always say thanks and never try and bully my way through, even when riding marked bikes and not running under blues.
              « Last Edit: 2019-06-11 17:36:31 by Casbar »

              OfflineDavef1uk

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              Re: 4 wheel drivers when filtering.
              « Reply #23 on: 2019-06-12 01:42:27 »
              Unpopular comment I'm sure but car drivers are entitled to use the whole of the lane they're in or whichever part they like.. they are not obligated to move out of the way for anyone who isn't displaying blue lights. Its nice to come across folk who do move over but when a motorcyclist starts expecting or demanding it, the car driver is no longer the a** hole.

              Using the H/S to get through traffic would be a solution up to a point, until you end up with a convoy of bikes zooming down there and then you may as well open it up for all traffic.


              As an ex driving instructor, lane discipline is still taught and drivers today forget that part of their lessons.  We drive in the centre of a lane, as positioning to either left or right is also an indication, an indication your wanting to change lanes..  I see drivers hugging lines all the time.. it makes it harder for emergency services to get through by bad lane discipline. 


              Same with the gap between you and the driver in front, you should be able to see the rear tyres as a guide.  The reason we taught this was if the vehicle broke down in front , you could maneouver out ok, also, if a person crossing between cars they can do safely. 


              Common sense is often fleeting when someone just wants to get home. 


              Motorbikes take no room and can clear congestion quickly if allowed.  A convoy of bikes is still safer down the hard shoulder than between cars which position their cars badly ..


              I distilled in my pupils, pedestrians, cycles, motorbikes...blind spots...over and over. 


              Cars have more protection...we don’t ,,!!   So give us room please...respect the motorbike users..we will forever be grateful. 


              😊😂😁.  Thank you.
              Motorbiking is a life, not a hobby.  Ride with Pride.  😜

              OnlineGraham88

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                Re: 4 wheel drivers when filtering.
                « Reply #24 on: 2019-06-12 09:56:20 »
                Davef1uk - Learners are taught to use the centre of the lane - same for cars and bikes. As skills develop it becomes perfectly acceptable to use the whole of the lane, for avoiding things in the road, getting a better view, making yourself seen and dissuading other road users executing risky manoeuvres that put me or my property at risk... we all practice this on two wheels but are you saying if someone has four wheels they shouldn't?? Cant accept that I'm afraid, car or bike I can and will use whichever part of the road I see fit providing it is lawful and that may mean that those behind me have to wait and not being a hypocrite means that on two wheels if I come up to someone preventing me passing I don't get aggy, I just wait until its safe to pass. As for emergency services, that's not poor lane discipline, its not using mirrors.

                I'm not against filtering, I am against bikes filtering when there is not enough room to do it safely, I have had a bike clip my car before and he/she drove off and didn't give a toss so now if I see a bike coming and I don't think they can safely get through, I shut the door and stop them trying. Sorry.

                OnlineCasbar

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                  Re: 4 wheel drivers when filtering.
                  « Reply #25 on: 2019-06-12 13:27:50 »
                  Well having passed my IAM car test a few weeks ago, I don't remember reading in the manual or being advised in the training that I had to also make decisions on whether it was safe for another driver or biker to pass me and if I didn't think it was, I had to block them from doing so.

                  OnlineGraham88

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                    Re: 4 wheel drivers when filtering.
                    « Reply #26 on: 2019-06-12 14:07:55 »
                    You don't have to. However from the IAM bike training, and indeed novice bike training, your choice of position should partly consider what other road users may try to do. There is nothing unlawful about riding a road in position 1 but it can be dangerous.. partly because another road user may mistakenly see an opportunity and try to squeeze pass. In my eyes this is exactly the same thing. I may be over to stop a motorcyclist overtaking, or I may be over to avoid a ladder that some clown has left in the road that the motorcyclist may not be able see and in either case its got bugger all to do with traffic behind me, they just have to wait patiently until it is safe. And when I'm filtering in bike mode, I don't get pissy when someone doesn't move for me, I wait patiently and my time will come.. And if someone does move for me I always say thank you (for doing something they were never obligated to)

                    Just because car drivers have more protection, I don't want my car getting damaged any more than I want me getting damaged.

                    OnlineCasbar

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                      Re: 4 wheel drivers when filtering.
                      « Reply #27 on: 2019-06-12 15:16:49 »
                      You don't have to. However from the IAM bike training, and indeed novice bike training, your choice of position should partly consider what other road users may try to do. There is nothing unlawful about riding a road in position 1 but it can be dangerous.. partly because another road user may mistakenly see an opportunity and try to squeeze pass. In my eyes this is exactly the same thing. I may be over to stop a motorcyclist overtaking, or I may be over to avoid a ladder that some clown has left in the road that the motorcyclist may not be able see and in either case its got bugger all to do with traffic behind me, they just have to wait patiently until it is safe. And when I'm filtering in bike mode, I don't get pissy when someone doesn't move for me, I wait patiently and my time will come.. And if someone does move for me I always say thank you (for doing something they were never obligated to)

                      Just because car drivers have more protection, I don't want my car getting damaged any more than I want me getting damaged.


                      I am also IAM and RoSPA on a bike and I personally think the logic above is a little flawed, a bike has a much smaller footprint. You are moving position to protect yourself, in a car, you already have most of your side of the road, in Roadcraft it doesn't advocate moving around your lane so as not to invite a following vehicle to see it as an invitation to pass. Like on a bike you use road position (albeit a lot less) to maximise visibility, not to block following vehicles.

                      OnlineGraham88

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                        Re: 4 wheel drivers when filtering.
                        « Reply #28 on: 2019-06-12 17:31:50 »
                        I don't see the big difference to be honest, you take the smallest cars on our roads vs. the biggest bikes and the whole footprint argument starts to lose potency. Whatever vehicle I happen to be in I select the appropriate position, speed and gear based on all the available information to leave me in the safest possible state (and 'me' includes my property). For me at least this does include blocking vehicles in certain circumstances, otherwise in town I would ride more position 1 than 2, after all being further away from oncoming traffic has to be safer?

                        OfflineDavef1uk

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                        Re: 4 wheel drivers when filtering.
                        « Reply #29 on: 2019-06-12 21:15:43 »
                        I don't see the big difference to be honest, you take the smallest cars on our roads vs. the biggest bikes and the whole footprint argument starts to lose potency. Whatever vehicle I happen to be in I select the appropriate position, speed and gear based on all the available information to leave me in the safest possible state (and 'me' includes my property). For me at least this does include blocking vehicles in certain circumstances, otherwise in town I would ride more position 1 than 2, after all being further away from oncoming traffic has to be safer?


                        The problem we have is most people who have been driving for a long time have no idea how to drive on a motorway and have developed bad habits that border on selfish arrogant stunts.
                        When I say no idea how to drive on a motorway, I mean, who taught you how to drive correctly and merging safely, lane you should drive in, what each lane means, how to tell which lane your in during fog etc.   I taught Pass Plus and lots of my colleagues thought, and still do think, it should be mandatory.


                        We should drive in the left lane unless overtaking and return to that lane.  ( Highway Code 5:264 ).  But how many do we see straddling lane 2 and 3.   


                        Positing should be centre of lane unless your manoeuvring to overtake and therefor your position would change to make the manoeuvre.   


                        How many put their signals on and leave them on and hope someone lets them out.   If that was a 40 ton lorry, I would be freaking out. 


                        MSM is commonly known now, but seldom practiced.  Check your mirror, IF it’s safe to pull out or manoeuvre out, then and only then would you signal, then you manoeuvre. 


                        Obstinate driving leads to road rage.


                        Cyclist, motorbikes are never seen unless we are 10 feet from you..more and more riders are fitting extra lights, brake lights, wearing hi vis, doing all they can to be seen...


                        In closing, read this from my colleagues page on teaching lane discipline and positioning. 


                        https://www.learnerdriving.com/driving-test/marking/positioning.htm













                        Motorbiking is a life, not a hobby.  Ride with Pride.  😜