Oil level - after draining hot, filling cold

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Marvin2Shoes
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Oil level - after draining hot, filling cold

Post by Marvin2Shoes »

I have read the posts on this subject and I am still wondering if I understand the intricacies of this oil system. . The riders manual seems to give a very brief howto.
It has always been best practice to drain oil at operating temperature.
It has also always been best practice to check your oil level before you start your engine.
Not with a BMW R1200RT it seems.
The riders manual makes the statement that oil should be checked when at op-temp. Obviously it doesn't mention thermostatic valves on oil coolers that retain oil if not at operating temperature nor does it state the level to fill the sump to with new oil after draining oil and new filter fitted. Do you measure 3.8litres minus what went in the filter on fitment and just tip it in? Do I take it for a ride with the oil (cold) in the window shown in the picture below? Am I overthinking this oil refill issue. It seems more convoluted than I am used to and certainly more involved than any Japanese bike I have ever owned.
As a separate point of interest: It has always been best practice in warm/hot climates to keep coolant and oil as cool as possible. Wouldn't it therefore be better (in theory) to remove any thermostatic valve from the oil cooling system when the bike is always operating in ambient atmospheric temperatures exceeding (say) 15 degrees celcius and increasing oil cooler capacity/efficiency?
This would seem to solve the oil cooler retention problem and perhaps as an added bonus would....
1. Cause the oil supply temperature to fluctuate to a lesser degree?
2. Lessen the likelihood of oil cooling ceasing when the oil cooler thermostatic valve ceases to function?
Just some musings given the oddity of BMW's oil system as I understand it so far... Have I completely misunderstood the operation of the oiling system?
Does anyone get into modifying their bikes?
Here's the level after filling while cold with the filter full of oil... is this the level you should have after 3.8litres of oil is added? How much higher should the oil get at operating temperature?
Oil-window.jpg
Oil-window.jpg (217.36 KiB) Viewed 631 times
Last edited by Marvin2Shoes on Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:54 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Marvin2Shoes
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Re: Oil level - filling when cold after draining

Post by Marvin2Shoes »

PS. Please understand that this picture was taken 6 days after I purchased the bike, I am 1600km from home with limited tools and cleaning/polishing gear. It was very dirty and poorly serviced as can be seen by the sand next to the oil window. I have since spent an hour cleaning just the front wheel with about a half hour to go before I start the rear wheel. It's a big job! According to servicing records the bike has done 14000km's in the last four years so likely wasn't washed and spent these years in a garage. Much work still to do so please don't judge the mess you can see as that is going to be cleaned properly once I can get home and remove the fairing for a proper clean.
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sakm
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Re: Oil level - after draining hot, filling cold

Post by sakm »

I have never heard of thermostatic valves on an oil cooled bike I was always under the impression that the oil just ran around the circuit continuously and isn't like a cooling system on a water cooled bike.

But saying that I have never had an oil cooled bike or even looked in to the systems.

As for oil level thats how mine sits maybe a little higher and once warmed up and level checked its at the right level as per the manual
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Re: Oil level - after draining hot, filling cold

Post by Marvin2Shoes »

Thankyou, that straightened out the oil filling issue. I was reading the posts about oil here in this section of the forum. Others have mentioned this thermostatic valve issue... I can't imagine why this would be needed but then I have never been told to check my oil level AFTER a ride lol.
I have asked about a comprehensive workshop service manual in the Documentation section of the forum to see if I can get a hold of some definitive information on the issue of the oil cooling system.
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Re: Oil level - after draining hot, filling cold

Post by Randyjaco »

Marvin2Shoes wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:15 pm Thankyou, that straightened out the oil filling issue. I was reading the posts about oil here in this section of the forum. Others have mentioned this thermostatic valve issue... I can't imagine why this would be needed but then I have never been told to check my oil level AFTER a ride lol.
I have asked about a comprehensive workshop service manual in the Documentation section of the forum to see if I can get a hold of some definitive information on the issue of the oil cooling system.
I have never had an issue with any of my bikes or customer bikes. Whenever I have changed the oil I have emptied the crankcase and then added the recommended amount of new oil. The oil level has always been pretty much spot on. If it wasn't, I added a little more oil. :)
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Re: Oil level - after draining hot, filling cold

Post by Marvin2Shoes »

That's good news... I was worried about levels with this "check while at operating temperature" method. Then others were saying that you have to put the bike on its side stand for ten minutes to get the oil out of the oil cooler and then put it on its centre stand to check the correct level, all within a short period of riding it so the oil is still hot.
I have always just made sure my other bikes were level and filled to half to three quarters of the filler window. Since the RT has an external oil filter I have to fill it before fitting unlike the Japanese motorcycles I have owned with internal filters but this I consider to be a useful upgrade.
I used to have to remove the exhaust system to change the oil filter on the XVS1100 Yamaha. I never enjoyed that!
the BMW is definitely growing on me.
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Re: Oil level - after sitting for 12 hours on centre stand

Post by Marvin2Shoes »

So after riding the bike for a week it has become apparent why bmw advises checking oil at operating temperature.
When cold after sitting overnight the window suggests it is overfilled as can be seen in the following image :
20220912_101458~2.jpg
20220912_101458~2.jpg (191.02 KiB) Viewed 509 times
After running for 10 seconds and leaving sit a few minutes it looks like this:
20220912_101918~2.jpg
20220912_101918~2.jpg (217.94 KiB) Viewed 509 times
After a further 20 minutes it looks like:
20220912_104253~2.jpg
20220912_104253~2.jpg (182.01 KiB) Viewed 509 times
I imagine if I leave it it will end up looking like the first photo. Does anyone know why the oil seems to have bubbles in it?
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Marvin2Shoes
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Re: Oil level - after draining hot, filling cold

Post by Marvin2Shoes »

Apparently the bubbles were caused by the oil being overfilled. Oil level is normal now with no bubbles. Of all the bikes I have owned/worked on this bike has had the biggest learning curve. 3 different oil changes and a spline grease... Are there any other things I need to be looking out for on a cam-head?
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Re: Oil level - after draining hot, filling cold

Post by Ed Harley »

Marvin2Shoes wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:24 amApparently the bubbles were caused by the oil being overfilled.
Air bubbles are there because of oil being pumped and circulated around the engine. I'd say that the oil level is OK ref. photos 2 and three.
1983 GS1000G | 1984 GSX1100EF | 1997 FLHR | 2016 FLSTC | Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200 XRT
Marvin2Shoes
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Re: Oil level - after draining hot, filling cold

Post by Marvin2Shoes »

Except there are tiny bubbles all through the oil, not just on top. The level when hot was way above the sight glass so bubbles were causing more increase in oil volume than heat. This means to adjust the level when hot (by the manual) you would need to remove oil. After doing this (about 70-100ml removed) the oil is correct in the site window after the bike sits for 5-10 minutes after running at operating temperature. There are no bubbles showing evenly distributed in the oil now.
My problem seems to be I am used to Japanese bikes where filling with oil can be accomplished by using the level in the sight glass. From now on I will be measuring out exactly 3.8 litres.
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Re: Oil level - after draining hot, filling cold

Post by Ed Harley »

Seems to be quite sensitive system.

I put in 3.7 litres and I'm at upper edge of the sight glass when hot + 5 minutes waiting. Next time I will try with 3.6 l.
1983 GS1000G | 1984 GSX1100EF | 1997 FLHR | 2016 FLSTC | Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200 XRT
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