Luddites

Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board.
gogs01
Posts: 628
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:32 am

Re: Luddites

Post by gogs01 »

Ganesh wrote: I'm all for adding stuff that makes life easier, ..... I quite like my car as it has dipping rear view mirror, automatic windscreen wipers and lights, cruise control (not adaptive),electric windows, built in sat-nav, radio/cd, two sd card slots, central locking .......
Me too - my car also has auto stop/start, auto handbrake, auto gearbox ..... On the infotainment side I can set the maximum volume when the radio comes on, amongst many of the menu options ..... If you learned to drive in this car you'd be able to set up your mobile phone, but you would have a lot to learn if you wanted to drive a "conventional" car.
My 4th R1200RT = 2016 (2017 MY) R1200RT LE
B787MECH
Posts: 241
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:39 pm
Bike Model and Year: 2016 LC
Been liked: 1 time
Great Britain

Re: Luddites

Post by B787MECH »

tda2806 wrote: Surely what we are discussing here would be more correctly referred to as technophobia, rather than luddism or even neo-luddism. There is no rule that an increase in functionality leads to a corresponding increase in unreliability, in fact I can think of many examples where the reverse is true and it may be that adding clutchless gear change will improve the overall reliability! It seems strange to me that we have purchased a premium product by choice and yet are willing to argue that anything added as an OEM option will decrease it's quality.
I don't think I'm a "technophobe" when I wonder about the long term (5yrs+) reliability of my 2017 LC. As an engineer and motorcyclist for the past 40yrs what I see is a gradual move to increasing complexity and sophistication (seven settings on your ABS/Traction Control on some bikes???) driven by manufacturers that enables them to charge more for their products and services. Owners are happy because they get bikes with all the bells and whistles and with PCP (leasing) etc can afford them and don't intend to keep them long, usually not past the warranty period. How many owners actually keep there bikes for 5yrs+ and do their own maintenance and repairs nowadays? Not many I would suggest. I hear of cars and bikes being scrapped for single items being faulty (ABS pumps, ECU's, Electronic suspension etc) due to the expense.
I recently hired a 6 yr old 1200rt in NZ that had about 50,000 miles on the clock and ran well apart from jumping out of gear occasionally. When I asked the owner whether the items such as the radio, cruise control, alarm etc worked they told me the they hadn't worked for a while and were too expensive to fix. I wasnt worried as  I wouldn't use them anyway but It does illustrate my point though. According to 'Honest John' of the Telegraph Motoring newspaper the design life of a car is now 7 yrs, which means they're not expected to last any longer! If that's not 'Built-In Obsolescence'  what is?
All of this didn't put me off buying an new LC, but did stop me buying some of the unnecessary crap (or should I say essential extras......delete as appropriate!).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Casbar
Posts: 2670
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:25 am
Been liked: 45 times
Great Britain

Re: Luddites

Post by Casbar »

B787MECH wrote: I don't think I'm a "technophobe" when I wonder about the long term (5yrs+) reliability of my 2017 LC. As an engineer and motorcyclist for the past 40yrs what I see is a gradual move to increasing complexity and sophistication (seven settings on your ABS/Traction Control on some bikes???) driven by manufacturers that enables them to charge more for their products and services. Owners are happy because they get bikes with all the bells and whistles and with PCP (leasing) etc can afford them and don't intend to keep them long, usually not past the warranty period. How many owners actually keep there bikes for 5yrs+ and do their own maintenance and repairs nowadays? Not many I would suggest. I hear of cars and bikes being scrapped for single items being faulty (ABS pumps, ECU's, Electronic suspension etc) due to the expense.
I recently hired a 6 yr old 1200rt in NZ that had about 50,000 miles on the clock and ran well apart from jumping out of gear occasionally. When I asked the owner whether the items such as the radio, cruise control, alarm etc worked they told me the they hadn't worked for a while and were too expensive to fix. I wasnt worried as  I wouldn't use them anyway but It does illustrate my point though. According to 'Honest John' of the Telegraph Motoring newspaper the design life of a car is now 7 yrs, which means they're not expected to last any longer! If that's not 'Built-In Obsolescence'  what is?
All of this didn't put me off buying an new LC, but did stop me buying some of the unnecessary crap (or should I say essential extras......delete as appropriate!).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes the good old days, I remember my Triumph Bonny in the early 70s, what a wonderful reliable bike that was. Oh no it wasn't it was a heap of sh1t.
B787MECH
Posts: 241
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:39 pm
Bike Model and Year: 2016 LC
Been liked: 1 time
Great Britain

Luddites

Post by B787MECH »

Casbar wrote:
Yes the good old days, I remember my Triumph Bonny in the early 70s, what a wonderful reliable bike that was. Oh no it wasn't it was a heap of sh1t.
Oh dear, you haven't grasped what I'm talking about have you. Let's have another try.......how many LC owners on this forum do their own maintenance and intend to keep their bike more than 5 years?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Last edited by B787MECH on Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Casbar
Posts: 2670
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:25 am
Been liked: 45 times
Great Britain

Re: Luddites

Post by Casbar »

B787MECH wrote: Oh dear, you haven't grasped what I'm talking about have you. Let's have another try.......how many LC owners on this forum do their own maintenance and intend to keep their bike more than 5 years?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Whatever, your far to bright for me!

Last edited by Casbar on Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jackronner
Posts: 508
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:45 am
Location: Oakland, California
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 9 times
United States of America

Re: Luddites

Post by jackronner »

As I said above, I've never owned a cell phone, but I'm not a technophobe.  Back in the 80's they were called "brick" phones, and I (accurately) foresaw the death of privacy and solitude, another "brick in the wall".  That the desolate, remote places in nature that we on our bikes seem to seek out would be anathema to future generations, because they couldn't get a signal!!  The modern phobia: being unplugged, unconnected, bboooorrrrreeedddd by being alone with no phone!  Look at everyone sleepwalking through life, so mesmerized the elsewhere of their screens that they're ironically alone and oblivious to the people and the world around them, alone in a crowd.  That being said, I gotta admit I'm looking forward to not being a slave to a wall outlet to recharge my laptop (got to see those ballgames).




But I like my bike's tech.  It's the first "modern" bike I've had.  I've had only one mad braking experience on an ABS bike, and was amazed and thankful for having avoided having my rear wheel trying to get ahead of the front wheel.  I'll gladly give up messing with carbs and look forward to needing the heated accessories.  The electric windshield works a treat, and is great to be able to lower it on a hot day.  But it didn't 'alf make me laugh when I realized that my bike could tell an enquiring passerby the time and ambient temperature!
User avatar
David.
Subscriber
Posts: 8268
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:29 pm
Location: North Yorkshire
Bike Model and Year: R1200RT (Camhead) 2012
Been liked: 381 times
Great Britain

Re: Luddites

Post by David. »

I own a TC, do most of my own maintenance & it's more than 5 years old.
simbo
Subscriber
Posts: 1457
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:33 pm
Location: Greater Manchester
Bike Model and Year: RT 2011
Has liked: 80 times
Been liked: 139 times
Great Britain

Re: Luddites

Post by simbo »

David. wrote: I own a TC, do most of my own maintenance & it's more than 5 years old.

+1.  I do all my own maintenance and repairs, same on the Harley too, probably going to keep both these bikes for the next seven years now, then I'll trade them both for a new Triumph Bonneville which I'll also maintain myself and keep until my kids inherit it 😊
The GS 'is' the better bike :-)
User avatar
Ganesh
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:13 pm
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Luddites

Post by Ganesh »

I do tend to agree that sometimes the myriad of microprocessors that fiddle with everything does contribute to reliability problems. Particularly when they are intermittent, only that plugging a diagnostic computer and reading error codes does not always get to the problem. Worse case is when there is no error code and the techy can't work it out as he was only trained on computer. Mine is now coming to 30k which isn't too much and is 7 years old, not intending to change it until the residual value is down to the cost of a dinner, if it is still going (touch wood). I tend to change cars when the electrics start to play up as that throws most techies, no error codes, last one was 12 years old and 140k, the one before was 198k and 16 years old.
thanks and regards, Ganesh
Post Reply