Oil, yes I know, again !

Best tyres and oil for your R1200RT/R1250RT get other users opinions here.
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Oil, yes I know, again !

Post by Our Gee »

Just spotted this on ebay. 5 litres of 10w-50 full synthetic engine oil to API SM/CF  ACEA A3/B4-04 which I believe exceeds BMW's stated requirements for the Boxer engine.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Total-Quartz- ... SwnDZUG-yE
£27 incl. Delivery.

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stelyn
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Re: Oil, yes I know, again !

Post by stelyn »

Seems cheap enough,  so is it `old dated stock' ?    :whistle:
Only a Motorcyclist knows why a dog rides with his head out the car window
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Re: Oil, yes I know, again !

Post by guest2360 »

Irrespective of what your handbook tells you BMW now recommend 15W-50 for all air cooled bikes and 5W-40 for the LCs.  So not only old stock but the wrong stock.
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Re: Oil, yes I know, again !

Post by Our Gee »

RTman10 wrote: Irrespective of what your handbook tells you BMW now recommend 15W-50 for all air cooled bikes and 5W-40 for the LCs.  So not only old stock but the wrong stock.
Appreciate what you are saying and having just re-acquainted myself with the gobbledeguke that BMW has printed in the Rider's Manual regarding Engine Oil, and having been advised by various dealers numerous times over the past ten years of Boxer ownership that the recommended oil (both brand and viscosity) has yet again been changed, I am going to throw caution to the wind, save so cash and use 10W-50 API SM Synthetic. Wish me luck !!.
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Re: Oil, yes I know, again !

Post by guest2360 »

Quite right.  It's your bike.  I still have a bottle of 10/50 on the shed shelf somewhere.


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David.
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Re: Oil, yes I know, again !

Post by David. »

This might be worth a read, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

As we all know, the Twin Cam RT has a Dry Clutch, therefore the Engine Oils do not need to meet the same standards for a motorcycle with a Wet Clutch.

Yes, API SM exceeds the BMW recommendation of API SF, but would not appear to be a specific Motorcycle oil as SF/SG Standards are.

The CF classification is for Diesel Engines & ACEA is for Automobiles.

The Total oil manufacture & specification is aimed at Cars not Motorcycles which may have a higher revving Engine, does that make it fit for purpose.

For the difference in cost, I'll stick to using Castrol Power 1 Racing 4T 10W-50 as recommended by BMW when the TC RT first came out in 2010, fully-synthetic & API SL.

The 15W-50 oil is not only a narrower viscosity range, it's part-synthetic & API SJ.
Last edited by David. on Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oil, yes I know, again !

Post by Our Gee »

Appreciate the replies and the info David, however I just can't get my head around this generalising statement "Motorcycle Specific". An engine is an engine wether it's in a car or a bike. I can appreciate that high reving highly stressed racing engines will require a state of the art lubricant but for a relatively low reving engine like the Boxer with it's independently lubricated separate gear box and isolated clutch why is a Motorcycle Specific Oil deemed necessary. An engine oil which also lubricates transmission gears is subjected to higher stresses and therefore requires the addition (at a cost) of extra components to cope. Other addictives are also required (at a cost) to prevent clutch slip in a wet clutch design. None of these features are in the Boxer Engine so why do BMW deem it necessary to specify such an oil. If this requirement can be easily explained then I will conceed to those who know better. :kacsint2:
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Re: Oil, yes I know, again !

Post by guest2360 »

I understood the difference was because in a car the sump stays relatively level whereas in a bike it is constantly swishing the oil from side to side.  This apparently has an effect on oil specifically made for cars as apposed to bikes. something to do with bubbles I believe. Anyway for an engine costing thousands of pounds it's not worth mucking about with its oil.  IMO. I also remember something about car oils having cleaning agents in them that can have a nasty effect on wet clutches.
Last edited by guest2360 on Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oil, yes I know, again !

Post by David. »

Sorry, but I can't explain why BMW deem it necessary to, what may be seen as, over specify an oil which is suitable for use with a Wet Clutch,
to be used in their Twin Cam Engines which have a Dry Clutch.

The Castrol Power 1 Racing 4T 10W-50 also meets the Japanese Standard of JASO-MA for Motorcycles with Wet Clutches.

This is part of a Castrol Recommendation Guide which was supplied in the document pack for my 2010 RT.

Image

It's also strange that between 2007 & 2010 during my Ownership of a Hexhead, BMW in their wisdom decided to change the recommended oil from 20W-50 Mineral to the 10W-50 Fully-synthetic, now work that one out!

Oil technology is constantly being developed, why not use what's believed to give the best Engine protection, providing it's not cost prohibitive.

What I can say is that when my 2007 Hexhead failed, (partially seized on both cylinders) after 6 months & 10,000 miles, the first thing the Dealers did was measure how much oil was in it. Whether they would go down the route of analyzing the oil specification, before a Warranty claim, I don't know.
Last edited by David. on Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oil, yes I know, again !

Post by Our Gee »

One thing for sure is the sale of Engine oil is a lucrative way of making money. The difference in price between what the average punter pays when buying retail from a motor factors, bike dealer's spares counter, on line supplier, and that which is supplied by the dealer during a service (usually from a 40 gallon drum) is massive. I do appreciate that dealer have to make a living but at what cost to customers. It's with this massive mark-up in mind that I begin to ask "is it really necessary to specify such a high spec product". If some bod from BMW can set out the reasons then so be it and I won't feel like I am being charged un-necessarily.

As an aside have anyone else wondered why in light of the big reductions in the price of Fuel that the price of lube oil has remained the same even though the price of Crude Oil, from which Lube Oil Basestocks is derived has dropped dramatically.
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Re: Oil, yes I know, again !

Post by Levisp »

Agree its overpriced. I have an LC bike with wet clutch so have to go for bike oil. Due to warranty I have stayed with what BMW have specified. However I have sourced the same oil from Germany and got the price from £18 / litre dealer price to £8 / litre including delivery. I'm happy with £8/litre for top quality oil anything more is starting to take the p*ss.
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Re: Oil, yes I know, again !

Post by David. »

I will not pay the Dealer price for 15W-50 Semi-synthetic, which was last quoted as being £21.60 per litre.

When I can by the higher spec. 10W-50 Fully-synthetic for £10.00 per litre plus P&P.

http://moto-oil.co.uk/castrol-power-1-racing-4t-10w-50

I use the Moto-Oil cost as a Price Beater price with OPIE Oils, I prefer to deal with OPIE.

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-69349-castr ... e-oil.aspx
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Re: Oil, yes I know, again !

Post by badger »

When i read about the perils of drinking i gave up reading.
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Re: Oil, yes I know, again !

Post by Our Gee »

All very interesting chaps, but I suppose that in the end we will each go down the road of what we think is best individually, bearing in mind our own situation such as Bike in or out of warranty, Dealer service, Home service, Independant service. Reading back through the thread I see that at least two of us are using oil not approved by BMW, ie Castrol Power 1 Racing 10w-50, which apart from the little picture of a bike on the container and the addition of some  high shear load gear powder and some clutch plate non-slip grit is not much different than the Total Quartz Racing 10w-50.

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Re: Oil, yes I know, again !

Post by David. »

A reason given for the change from 10w-50 to 15w-50 by a BMW dealer was because it's cheaper, not if you know the right place to purchase it.

The 15w-50 viscosity range is not one of those recommended in the 2012 RT Rider's Manual.

MicksGarage, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC2PujjblVY, didn't mention BMW RT's.

Nielsen CDG are the Company who's Logo is on the ebay advert for the Total Quartz,
https://www.nielsencdg.co.uk/acatalog/T ... l#SID=1765
Last edited by David. on Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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