Insurance Query (For a Friend)

General discussion of the BMW R1200RT/R1250RT
Our Gee
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Insurance Query (For a Friend)

Post by Our Gee »

As I have never had to make a bike Insurance Claim is was wondering if anyone can advise the outcome in the following sceanario which involves a friend. New bike less than 6 weeks old. New value around £11,000. Bike damaged in a low speed spill during in heavy rain, possibly diesel or other surface contaminent on a roundabout.
If the bike can be repaired what effect will this have on my friends Insurance at renewal time. And, if the bike is written off how will this affect my friend's insurance applications in the future.
Thanks.
Last edited by Our Gee on Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Levisp
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Re: Insurance Query (For a Friend)

Post by Levisp »

The one and only time so far on the road I had a spill, the bike was written off and I lost a couple years no claim bonus. I also had to declare the accident on insurance renewal for the next 5 years. It was a while back now but if I remember correctly my insurance did indeed go up. The accident involved no one but me. Lost the front end on a wet corner which was slippery aggravated by me attacking the corner as if it was dry.


If you claim on your insurance then you have to declare this at next renewal. Even if he has no claims bonus protection I'm sure the declared accident will effect his next premiums.


If the bike is repaired without going through insurance then no one needs to know and so it will not effect his insurance.
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blokeonthemove
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Re: Insurance Query (For a Friend)

Post by blokeonthemove »

Treat it as a loan, they increase your premiums over a few years and in the end you have paid them back for the prang. They make the money, we don't. It really comes into it's own if you have a mega disaster involving huge damage or injury.
guest2826

Re: Insurance Query (For a Friend)

Post by guest2826 »

It doesn't matter whether it's a write-off or a repair claim. Because both involve a claim, they will both affect the no-claims discount for future renewals and the gross premium too, with the same insurer or a different one. Some policies have a protected NCD which in theory means that a claim won't lose this. In practice though they will put up the gross premium due to the claim so that even if the same percentage NCD applies, the net will be higher.

At renewal time, there are always other factors affecting premiums, particularly the going market rate which varies over time so it may not be possible to identify exactly how much of the increase - if there is one - is due to the claim or just changing market rates and circumstances like the rider's age etc. A claim is likely to put up premiums far more for a younger rider than an old one. So it's not possible to say how the future premiums may be affected but clearly he should be prepared for a non-trivial rise.

I would add that I firmly disagree with the above suggestion that if the repair is not paid through insurance then it does not have to be declared. It most certainly does and if you do this then renew without telling the insurer, you are breaching the terms of the policy and they will be fully entitled to refuse any future claim if they discover that the earlier accident was concealed from them. It is no defence to say that it did not need to be declared because there was no claim.
Last edited by guest2826 on Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Levisp
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Re: Insurance Query (For a Friend)

Post by Levisp »

gaggle wrote: I would add that I firmly disagree with the above suggestion that if the repair is not paid through insurance then it does not have to be declared. It most certainly does and if you do this then renew without telling the insurer, you are breaching the terms of the policy and they will be fully entitled to refuse any future claim if they discover that you concealed the earlier accident from them. It is no defence to say you concealed it because there was no claim.

New one on me. If no one else is involved and you repair the bike yourself why does insurance company need to know. I'm talking here about minor spills. You drop the bike. Shit !! Replace anything damaged yourself, surely there is nothing to declare. Sure if its a major accident, but then you are hardly likely to repair it yourself. If its minor and someone else is involved sure you have to declare. Look at it another way. I'm riding along and a stone hits me. Damages bike. I repair it. Surely I don't have to inform insurance company.


I guess it depends on what constitutes an accident.
Last edited by Levisp on Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gogs01
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Re: Insurance Query (For a Friend)

Post by gogs01 »

gaggle wrote: ..... I would add that I firmly disagree with the above suggestion that if the repair is not paid through insurance then it does not have to be declared. It most certainly does and if you do this then renew without telling the insurer, you are breaching the terms of the policy and they will be fully entitled to refuse any future claim if they discover that the earlier accident was concealed from them. It is no defence to say that it did not need to be declared because there was no claim.
It gets worse ..... you also have to declare the accident / incident / claim when / if you come to renew your car insurance. I fell foul of that when I forgot to mention a bike claim at car renewal time. When going for a quote the following year I noted that the wording was something like "have you had any insurance claims in the last five years ?". I would certainly have been in trouble if I had tried to claim on the car insurance when I hadn't disclosed the previous motorcycle claim. I now wonder if household insurance, breakdown insurance or any other insurance claims have to be disclosed (you can be sure that the insurance company will check and find everything when you make a claim ..... )
My 4th R1200RT = 2016 (2017 MY) R1200RT LE
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Levisp
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Re: Insurance Query (For a Friend)

Post by Levisp »

To me "Have you had an insurance claim in the last 5 years" is my point. If yes sure you must declare but if no then surely you don't. If you repair yourself you are not claiming.


Good point about the car insurance. That hadn't occurred to me.
guest3074

Re: Insurance Query (For a Friend)

Post by guest3074 »

Levisp wrote:
New one on me. If no one else is involved and you repair the bike yourself why does insurance company need to know. I'm talking here about minor spills. You drop the bike. Shit !! Replace anything damaged yourself, surely there is nothing to declare. Sure if its a major accident, but then you are hardly likely to repair it yourself. If its minor and someone else is involved sure you have to declare. Look at it another way. I'm riding along and a stone hits me. Damages bike. I repair it. Surely I don't have to inform insurance company.


I guess it depends on what constitutes an accident.
New one on me too, and certainly for cars anything up to around £1,500 isn't worth it due to paying the excess and the increased premiums over the coming years. I suspect even assuming it was a legal obligation to inform that due to the high numbers of un-delclared minor bumps you'd never enforce it.
guest2360

Re: Insurance Query (For a Friend)

Post by guest2360 »

Surely the declaration you make on an insurance application always states "claims made ", not hsve you ever broken anything.  Otherwise walking past your bike and knocking the off would need to be declared if you replaced it. 

Casbar
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Re: Insurance Query (For a Friend)

Post by Casbar »

RTman10 wrote: Surely the declaration you make on an insurance application always states "claims made ", not hsve you ever broken anything.  Otherwise walking past your bike and knocking the off would need to be declared if you replaced it.

There was an article in the which magazine about this very fact. Apparently you are supposed to inform your insurance whether you made a  claim or not. That is the declaration, they as if you have made any claims or had any accidents etc. Now they can get stuffed if I repaired it myself and nobody else involved, then I doubt if I would tell them.
guest2360

Re: Insurance Query (For a Friend)

Post by guest2360 »

Too true. And I thought that Which were a sensible lot.
guest2826

Re: Insurance Query (For a Friend)

Post by guest2826 »

Levisp wrote: To me "Have you had an insurance claim in the last 5 years" is my point. If yes sure you must declare but if no then surely you don't. If you repair yourself you are not claiming...
But that is not what policy questionnaires request, though it's a common misconception. Mine for example at last renewal asked:

Have you had any accident, loss or claim - either fault or non fault - in the last three years?

If the answer is Yes, then details have to be supplied including date, cost, injuries etc.

Clearly this includes accidents where the cost of the repairs or write-off were not claimed, as well as those claimed.
Last edited by guest2826 on Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
guest2360

Re: Insurance Query (For a Friend)

Post by guest2360 »

So if you knocked your mirror off and it broke (loss and an accident) . And you don't declare this and you then put in a claim for a subsequent accident, would they be within their rights to not pay out. 
Totally daft.  Just proves we take out insurance because it's the law.  Nothing to do with protecting your investments.
Last edited by guest2360 on Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
guest2826

Re: Insurance Query (For a Friend)

Post by guest2826 »

RTman10 wrote: So if you knocked your mirror off and it broke (loss and an accident) . And you don't declare this and you then put in a claim for a subsequent accident, would they be within their rights to not pay out.
Totally daft. Just proves we take out insurance because it's the law. Nothing to do with protecting your investments.
It's not really daft from the insurer's point of view. They want to set the premium based on, amongst many other factors, the rider's accident record. That record tells them something about the rider irrespective of whether a claim was made. In the case of the original query in this thread, it appears to be major damage on an £11,000 bike, even a possible write-off was mentioned. A bit more you'd agree than knocking off a mirror.

I'd agree that few would bother reporting a very minor repair like a new mirror but my point was to clear up the misunderstanding here which suggested that accidents and losses don't have to be declared at all provided there was no claim. That view is wrong and is very wrong with the case in point which seems to be major damage.

Only third party insurance is required under the law. But most of us opt for comprehensive on RTs and other very valuable bikes in order to recover most of that value should there be a partial or even total loss. So for comp policies it is mostly to do with protecting the investment.
Last edited by guest2826 on Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
guest2360

Re: Insurance Query (For a Friend)

Post by guest2360 »

Our Gee.  Bet you wished you'd never asked. 


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